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Autor Wątek: Ancient DNA from pre-Slavic and Slavic individuals  (Przeczytany 1930 razy)

Radek

  • Gość
Ancient DNA from pre-Slavic and Slavic individuals
« dnia: Grudzień 13, 2021, 07:41:23 am »

Wywiad z archeologiem Jiří Macháčkiem, ktory jest zwiazany z projektem badan nad probkami z Pohansko oraz Breclav-Libiva (Ancient DNA from pre-Slavic and Slavic individuals was extracted to compare human genetic diversity before and after a possible demographic event traditionally associated with Slavic ethnogenesis.)

Google translate:

Archaeologist Jiří Macháček: The Slavs were hippies of the early Middle Ages

The news spread around the world: Czech archaeologists found a bone from 600 with engraved Old Germanic runes in a Slavic settlement near Břeclav. The lesson from history textbooks is so fragmented that the first script of the ancient Slavs was Glagolitic, created by Cyril and Methodius in the 9th century. "The script was here before them," says Jiří Macháček (50), a professor of archeology at Masaryk University.

Will history textbooks really be rewritten?
We'll see. What is certain, however, is that our discovery dispels some deep-seated myths. The identity of the Slavs has long been associated with language and writing. Just take it: just the name "Slav" means, according to one theory, the one who masters and worships the "word", while "German" is someone "dumb". The Slavs have always distinguished themselves from the Germans. And suddenly there is evidence that this may not have been the case at all. The Slavs in our territory had been in contact with some script for at least 250 years before the arrival of Cyril and Methodius, and that script was Old Germanic runes. And that's not all.

What else?
Until now, many people thought, although it was quite naive and unlikely, that the migration of nations took place in a single wave. That the Germans who lived in our territory simply rose one day and went elsewhere. The Slavs then moved to their place, who again came here from somewhere in the borders of today's Ukraine and Belarus. So the nations missed each other and did not meet. But as it turns out, this is not the case. The migration apparently took place in several waves, and people from different nations routinely clashed between them and passed on their knowledge.

For example, knowledge of writing ...
Yes, for example fonts. The Germans could teach the Slavs their runes.

How is it possible that such possibilities have never been considered before?
Well, it's been thought about for a long time. The revivalists pondered this variant. It was at this time that the tract of the monk Chrabr from the beginning of the 10th century was found.

Monk Chrabr was the successor of Cyril and Methodius, who lived after the expulsion of the pupils of the missionaries from Moravia in Bulgaria. In one of his treatises, he described that the Slavs had used certain features and scratches for divination and counting before the arrival of Cyril and Methodius. However, his authentic testimony was not supported by anything. No runes or other characters were ever found in the Slavic environment. But that is changing now. Suddenly we have physical evidence that the Central European Slavs could actually have used a different script before the Prophets arrived. And that was the runes.

Let's sum it up. Your team carried out archaeological research around Břeclav. What exactly did you find while digging?
A fragment of a cow's rib, whose age dates back to around 600 AD. On this rib is engraved an inscription, which was created at about the same time. It is engraved in Old Germanic runes.

What does the sign say?
He says nothing. It's just a rune series. That is, the alphabet that someone tried.

Who engraved the inscription?
There are several theories. The runes could be engraved by a German who lived among the local Slavs. Or it could have been the Slavs who learned it from a German. We are more inclined to this second variant.

Why?
The runes were written awkwardly - some characters are proportionally different. In addition, the man who engraved them in the bone tried them several times before hitting them. Two runes also fell out of line, he forgot about them. These are the conclusions of Professor Nedoma from the University of Vienna, who is one of the most important experts in runic writing.

Could it be that the German learned the script from the German? Or could the object in that place not just be lost? Maybe a Germanic businessman who happened to be driving around?
Even if the merchant passing by lost the object there, it would be German's contact with the Slavs. This was at a time when, according to our original knowledge, the Germans should no longer have lived in this area at all.

But we really think some Slav used that rib. There are very specific reasons for this: we found the bone in a Slavic settlement. We found it inside a dwelling that is typical of Slavs - these are simple excavated buildings, which we call earthworks, which are actually the well-known earthlings. Also in the vicinity of this dwelling, we discovered the remains of Slavs' life, such as their typical Prague-type pottery.

How widespread were the runes at that time? And who ever knew how to use them all?
Knowledge of the runes was rare. Only a minimum of people used them, say units of a percentage of the population. Not much is known about who it was, but rune experts agree that it was probably a higher social class of people - the clergy and other elites of the nation. They were called rune masters, and they were people with extraordinary ability who performed specific functions.

So can it be said that the author of the found inscription was someone high-ranking and influential who wanted to become a rune master?
Of course we don't know, but it's possible. Not far from the settlement, on the Austrian side of the river Dyje, we recently found several early medieval large mounds with wooden structures inside. Both localities are within sight of each other and it is possible that the emerging Slavic elite was buried in them, trying to master the runic script. But we already speculate a lot.

How complex was the runic script?
It wasn't complicated. These were really simple features and scratches, as described by the monk Chrabr. They had to be - since the rune masters carved them into stones and dug them into bones, wood or metal. The entire older futhark, as the runic alphabet is called, included 24 characters.

What was written most often with runes?
At the beginning, the runes mainly served to communicate people with the gods. It was such a medium. The Germans believed that Odin brought them knowledge of the runic script as the chief of the Germanic gods.

Related to this is their magical power: if the writer put them together and wrote them in the right order, their power multiplied. For example, they had a protective function. That's why they appear a lot on weapons, for example - they had to protect their owners. Therefore, on some objects, the runes were engraved so that other people could not see them. It wasn't meant to be shown to anyone, it was a very personal thing. After all, fans of fantasy literature know something similar from the Lord of the Rings, for example - the sword that killed Sauron was described by magical runes. His ring was also inscribed in the runes.

And later?
Later, runes began to be used to write more common things. They indicated, for example, the names of the owners of an object. Or its manufacturer. In Scandinavia, messages between spouses were also recorded by them. There are about 430 runic inscriptions in the older futhark, there are only about fifteen whole or partially preserved runic series in the whole of Europe. That's why our finding attracted so much attention.

If the runes were so magical in the beginning, did it mean that the inscription was engraved on a part of a certain animal?
Probably not. The inscription on the bones is probably only because the Slavs used almost exclusively things made of organic materials - bones and wood. In addition, the flat rib was well suited for engraving characters.

How long have runes been used?
If we talk about Central Europe, the older futhark was used there only until the seventh century. Then it was overshadowed by Christianity and a new typeface. However, Christianity penetrated north into Scandinavia much more slowly, so knowledge of the runes remained there - only the alphabet turned into a younger futhark. We know it in this form until the late Middle Ages.

So with the arrival of the heralds, the knowledge of the runes in Great Moravian society was completely lost?
We do not yet know to what extent the writing was widespread among the Slavs. Our find is the first swallow, which shows that the knowledge of the runes reached the Slavs.

How did the Slavs live at that time?
They were such "hippies" of the early Middle Ages. As I said, they built simple huts dug into the ground and did not create any luxury products. Even their ceramics were simple and unadorned. They had what they grew.

At first, they did not create more complex social structures and did not have "tax officials", so they did not pay any taxes. It is said that this way of life was very attractive to the people after the fall of the Roman Empire. The Slavs also brought some other nations to him.

Seriously?
It was a kind of reaction to previous unsatisfactory conditions in the then laced globalized world. The Roman Empire was nothing more than a model of today's globalized world - it was a large area within which huge movements of people, material and raw materials took place. For example, grain from the North African colonies moved to Pannonia, today's Hungary, to feed the legions. Some historians say that the collapse of the Roman Empire was largely due to the disproportionate tax burden from which this giant machinery was paid. So when the Roman Empire fell apart, the people returned for a while to a simpler but freer way of life.

What about the Germans who mingled with the Slavs here? How was their way of life different?
The Germans maintained closer contact with the Roman Empire, sometimes earning  as mercenaries from the Romans. They were therefore greatly influenced by the Roman way of life. For example, they had slightly more developed crafts and their funeral rites were richer - while the Slavs in the 6th century still burned their dead, they were already burying skeletons at that time. That is, they laid their dead in graves. The graves of their elites were very richly equipped, we find in them, for example, the remains of their horses, gold or weapons.

I assume you will want to continue your research ...
Yes, we will continue to dig in this locality this year. We hope that we will be able to find further findings and that the whole word will be on the bone. That would be a huge discussion! That would be fascinating!

In addition, we are launching one larger project, in which we want to carry out extensive archaeogenetic surveys of early medieval populations in cooperation with other European institutions. We have already explored one locality, it was a locality in Pohansko in southern Moravia. We took samples from skeletal burial grounds and examined how genetically the last Germans differed from the first Slavs in the area.

And what interesting did you find?
I can't tell you that yet, it's just a preliminary pilot study. But we expect a very interesting result. You will find out more at the end of this year.

https://www.novinky.cz/muzi/clanek/archeolog-jiri-machacek-slovane-byli-hippies-raneho-stredoveku-40364164
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Odp: Ancient DNA from pre-Slavic and Slavic individuals
« Odpowiedź #1 dnia: Grudzień 13, 2021, 07:46:27 am »

No, zakończenie ciekawe.
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Radek

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Odp: Ancient DNA from pre-Slavic and Slavic individuals
« Odpowiedź #2 dnia: Grudzień 13, 2021, 08:04:25 am »

In addition, we are launching one larger project, in which we want to carry out extensive archaeogenetic surveys of early medieval populations in cooperation with other European institutions. We have already explored one locality, it was a locality in Pohansko in southern Moravia. We took samples from skeletal burial grounds and examined how genetically the last Germans differed from the first Slavs in the area.

A tu wstepne wyniki...

Distance to:   Breclav_Libiva_pre-Slavic:LIB2
0.02679255   Icelandic:NA15765
0.02988435   Danish:503
0.03142783   German:German76
0.03180503   Icelandic:NA15759
0.03224440   Danish:507
0.03230307   Danish:487
0.03291754   English:English2
0.03374265   Swedish:Sweden5
0.03399934   Swedish:Sweden9
0.03451612   Danish:431
0.03503118   Danish:Denmark3
0.03508560   Danish:490
0.03533925   Danish:463
0.03551369   Danish:434
0.03564145   Swedish:Sweden1
0.03585840   Danish:500
0.03592165   Swedish:Sweden16
0.03596718   Welsh:WAL003
0.03608656   German:German77
0.03610695   Swedish:Sweden4
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0.03639362   Swedish:Sweden10
0.03643539   Icelandic:NA15762
0.03668122   English_Cornwall:HG00160
0.03694962   Scottish:Scottish18

Distance to:   Breclav_Libiva_pre-Slavic:LIB3
0.03147340   Italian_Veneto:ALP040
0.03209003   Italian_Piedmont:ItalyPiedmont136
0.03282935   Italian_Liguria:ALP099
0.03315431   Italian_Piedmont:ItalyPiedmont145
0.03326292   Italian_Tuscany:Tuscany98
0.03327858   Italian_Lombardy:BGD31
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0.03498079   Italian_Piedmont:ItalyPiedmont43
0.03543587   Portuguese:EBC_Portugal3
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0.03631233   Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige:ALP200
0.03660781   Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige:ALP420
0.03670847   French_Corsica:CorsicaS04208
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0.03753879   Italian_Piedmont:ItalyPiedmont63
0.03758748   Italian_Lombardy:BGD28
0.03763529   Italian_Veneto:ALP249
0.03779548   Italian_Tuscany:VO65
0.03782003   Italian_Bergamo:HGDP01155
0.03784507   French_Provence:provance2708
0.03815484   Spanish_Galicia:GAL48
0.03821706   Italian_Piedmont:ItalyPiedmont98
0.03839347   Italian_Bergamo:HGDP01152
0.03856517   Italian_Tuscany:Tuscany38

Distance to:   Breclav_Libiva_pre-Slavic?:LIB11
0.03155542   Ukrainian_Zakarpattia:EG600005
0.03408188   Hungarian:NA15203
0.03465858   Croatian:Croatia_Cro43
0.03534610   Croatian:Croatia_Cro133
0.03591472   Ukrainian_Zakarpattia:EG600001
0.03635145   Hungarian:NA15199
0.03665803   Bosnian:Bosnian_12
0.03667945   Ukrainian_Zakarpattia:EG600002
0.03685471   Czech:NA15727
0.03685566   Moldovan:44618757801C02
0.03715771   Polish:S_Polish-1
0.03746596   Ukrainian_Zakarpattia:EG600027
0.03748711   Croatian:Croatia_Cro302
0.03751062   Croatian:Croatia_Cro141
0.03783483   Czech:NA15732
0.03813014   Croatian:Croatia_Cro142
0.03819658   Polish:Polish33
0.03856448   Ukrainian_Zakarpattia:EG600009
0.03856668   Ukrainian_Zakarpattia:EG600076
0.03870074   Ukrainian_Zakarpattia:EG600096
0.03882583   Czech:NA15729
0.03900978   Hungarian:NA15204
0.03905881   Sorb_Niederlausitz:Niederlausitz1
0.03916427   Ukrainian_Rivne:EG600043
0.03950945   Ukrainian_Zakarpattia:EG600003

------------------------------------------------

Distance to:   Pohansko_Slavic:POH11
0.02858886   Radek_corka_scaled
0.03182003   Ukrainian_Lviv:EG600062
0.03208826   Ukrainian_Chernihiv:EG600053
0.03265783   Slovakian:Slovakia77
0.03431237   Ukrainian_Rivne:EG600043
0.03433709   Polish:S_Polish-1
0.03441740   Ukrainian_Zakarpattia:EG600027
0.03450101   Polish:Polish22
0.03513743   Ukrainian_Zakarpattia:EG600020
0.03513912   Radek_scaled
0.03530818   German_East:German_East4
0.03543105   Ukrainian_Zakarpattia:EG600096
0.03643519   Ukrainian_Zakarpattia:EG600076
0.03651285   Croatian:Croatia_Cro133
0.03652248   Sorb_Niederlausitz:Niederlausitz1
0.03668796   Slovakian:Slovakia85
0.03704945   Ukrainian_Zhytomyr:EG600045
0.03708573   Polish:Polish15
0.03741040   Ukrainian_Lviv:EG600089
0.03743859   Slovenian:Slovenian172
0.03750819   Hungarian:NA15205
0.03765922   Polish:Polish39
0.03787476   Ukrainian_Zakarpattia:EG600095
0.03790250   Czech:NA15732
0.03841435   Ukrainian_Lviv:EG600063

Distance to:   Pohansko_Slavic:POH13
0.02876657   Lithuanian_PZ:LTG-773
0.02912782   Lithuanian_PA:LTG-173
0.02975134   Lithuanian_VZ:LTG-587
0.03005261   Lithuanian_SZ:LTG-1127
0.03149112   Lithuanian_VA:LTG-372
0.03204169   Lithuanian_VZ:LTG-664
0.03275279   Belarusian:Belarusian1
0.03288503   Lithuanian_RA:LTG-334
0.03302159   Lithuanian_VZ:LTG-529
0.03308144   Lithuanian_PA:LTG-1366
0.03325212   Belarusian:Belarusian14
0.03354109   Lithuanian_VZ:LTG-935
0.03374560   Lithuanian_VA:LTG-439
0.03407076   Lithuanian_RA:LTG-102
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0.03455677   Lithuanian_SZ:LTG-645
0.03456317   Lithuanian_PZ:LTG-885
0.03464191   Russian_Smolensk:Rsm-171
0.03507343   Lithuanian_PZ:LTG-1034
0.03518768   Latvian:latvian58C6
0.03529000   Lithuanian_VZ:LTG-591
0.03547104   Lithuanian_PA:LTG-396

Distance to:   Pohansko_Slavic:POH28
0.03279148   Lithuanian_VA:LTG-372
0.03596688   Lithuanian_PZ:LTG-1099
0.03631079   Russian_Smolensk:RUS_Smol339
0.03705238   Lithuanian_VZ:LTG-529
0.03720456   Russian_Pskov:Rps-004
0.03727252   Lithuanian_PZ:LTG-773
0.03752961   Lithuanian_PZ:LTG-759
0.03807040   Belarusian:Belarusian15
0.03840477   Lithuanian_VA:LTG-625
0.03852586   Belarusian:Belarusian12
0.03872219   Lithuanian_RA:LTG-334
0.03886425   Lithuanian_VZ:LTG-587
0.03937513   Russian_Smolensk:Rsm-171
0.03952333   Lithuanian_VZ:LTG-532
0.03973710   Polish:Polish2
0.03984737   Ukrainian_Zhytomyr:EG600049
0.04063950   Lithuanian_SZ:LTG-918
0.04066463   Belarusian:Belarusian9
0.04069174   Lithuanian_RA:LTG-225
0.04069701   Russian_Smolensk:RUS_Smol345
0.04109316   Lithuanian_SZ:LTG-1112
0.04123411   Belarusian:Belarusian2
0.04144925   Lithuanian_PZ:LTG-1079
0.04148804   Lithuanian_VZ:LTG-591
0.04150745   Belarusian:Belarusian1

Distance to:   Pohansko_Slavic:POH36
0.03170307   Sorb_Niederlausitz:Niederlausitz1
0.03394436   Ukrainian_Lviv:EG600063
0.03440591   Ukrainian_Dnipro:EG600072
0.03505783   German:German75
0.03514739   Ukrainian_Sumy:EG600078
0.03517462   Polish:Polish15
0.03524928   Ukrainian_Zhytomyr:EG600045
0.03531496   Ukrainian_Zhytomyr:EG600046
0.03633359   Polish:Polish39
0.03640237   Ukrainian_Zakarpattia:EG600088
0.03658897   Ukrainian_Zakarpattia:EG600095
0.03673980   Ukrainian_Rivne:EG600042
0.03680857   Polish:Polish35
0.03711303   Slovakian:Slovakia85
0.03835709   Ukrainian_Rivne:EG600043
0.03870492   Polish:S_Polish-1
0.03899613   Polish:Polish30
0.03904994   Ukrainian_Chernihiv:EG600055
0.03913761   Ukrainian_Chernihiv:EG600057
0.03916622   Ukrainian_Lviv:EG600062
0.03926590   Polish:Polish28
0.03949569   Slovakian:Slovakia94
0.03954954   Ukrainian_Zakarpattia:EG600034
0.03962521   Ukrainian_Rivne:EG600044
0.03968991   Hungarian:NA15200

Distance to:   Pohansko_Slavic:POH40
0.02635690   Polish:Polish26
0.03061225   Czech:NA15724
0.03284021   Polish:Polish27
0.03293204   Slovakian:Slovakia85
0.03520673   Slovakian:Slovakia118
0.03541312   Radek_zona_scaled
0.03626662   Sorb_Niederlausitz:Niederlausitz1
0.03636471   Polish:Polish5
0.03637639   Russian_Belgorod:Rbgp-203
0.03674715   Polish:Polish16
0.03693433   Radek_corka_scaled
0.03796415   Ukrainian_Chernihiv:EG600053
0.03805987   German:German76
0.03813451   Ukrainian_Lviv:EG600062
0.03841134   Polish:Polish35
0.03855645   Polish:Polish32
0.03863583   Czech:NA15732
0.03871507   Polish:Polish39
0.03877641   Polish:S_Polish-1
0.03877854   German:German23
0.03916548   Russian_Ryazan:Rrzm-08
0.03923813   Ukrainian_Rivne:EG600038
0.03947414   Ukrainian_Dnipro:EG600072
0.03960445   Ukrainian_Zakarpattia:EG600088
0.03982201   Radek_scaled

Distance to:   Pohansko_Slavic:POH41
0.02537927   Polish:Polish37
0.02818788   Ukrainian_Rivne:EG600041
0.02885421   Polish:Polish22
0.02959788   Ukrainian_Chernihiv:EG600055
0.03007944   Ukrainian_Zakarpattia:EG600088
0.03013213   Belarusian:Belarusian13
0.03043510   Russian_Smolensk:RUS_Smol312
0.03044754   Polish:Polish39
0.03074870   Polish:Polish31
0.03138926   Russian_Orel:russianOrjol78
0.03144277   Polish:Polish32
0.03149504   Russian_Kursk:Rkuch-03
0.03175001   Ukrainian_Chernihiv:EG600060
0.03181581   Polish:Polish15
0.03198252   Cossack_Ukrainian:GS000035238
0.03218877   Ukrainian_Chernihiv:EG600053
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0.03230979   Lithuanian_PA:LTG-804
0.03256148   Polish:Polish34
0.03281374   Polish:Polish35
0.03300774   Belarusian:Belarusian4
0.03304641   Ukrainian_Sumy:EG600083
0.03333960   Ukrainian_Zhytomyr:EG600050
0.03342854   Russian_Smolensk:Rsm-109
0.03351703   Russian_Ryazan:Rrzm-08

Distance to:   Pohansko_Slavic:POH44
0.03109459   Polish:Polish35
0.03378293   Lithuanian_PA:LTG-173
0.03397973   Sorb_Niederlausitz:Niederlausitz1
0.03580711   Lithuanian_VA:LTG-471
0.03598604   Polish:Polish5
0.03693617   Polish:Polish6
0.03709201   Radek_corka_scaled
0.03760973   Lithuanian_VA:LTG-439
0.03766106   Ukrainian_Zakarpattia:EG600088
0.03806770   Lithuanian_PA:LTG-1352
0.03825902   Belarusian:Belarusian14
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0.03914534   Russian_Smolensk:RUS_Smol312
0.03928958   Polish:Polish27
0.03940525   Ukrainian_Lviv:EG600063
0.03950787   Belarusian:Belarusian13
0.03952623   Latvian:latvian54F2
0.03955788   Polish:Polish15
0.03988609   Lithuanian_VA:LTG-598
0.03997717   Radek_scaled
0.03998872   Radek_zona_scaled
0.04003333   Russian_Pskov:Rps-090
0.04034979   Ukrainian_Rivne:EG600042

Distance to:   Pohansko_Slavic:POH3
0.03353846   Moldovan:44618757471C01
0.03448503   Moldovan:44618757522C01
0.03476282   Ukrainian_Zakarpattia:EG600008
0.03609884   Moldovan:44618757482C02
0.03699528   Bosnian:Bosnian_10
0.03718394   Bosnian:Bosnian_12
0.03731265   Moldovan:44618757252C02
0.03757636   Ukrainian_Zakarpattia:EG600002
0.03774402   Croatian:Croatia_Cro142
0.03829365   Moldovan:44618758491C01
0.03832437   Romanian:A306
0.03834847   Serbian:728
0.03886071   Moldovan:44618757582C02
0.03894205   Bosnian:Bosnian_13
0.03905060   Croatian:Croatia_Cro198
0.03940904   Moldovan:44618758492C01
0.03965196   Slovenian:Slovenian172
0.03982778   Montenegrin:Montenegro4
0.04003475   Moldovan:44618757252C01
0.04041825   Hungarian:NA15203
0.04054645   Croatian:Croatia_Cro305
0.04094231   Moldovan:44618757581C02
0.04097262   Moldovan:44618758492C02
0.04120071   Ukrainian_Zakarpattia:EG600032
0.04125070   Ukrainian_Zakarpattia:EG600011

Distance to:   Pohansko_Slavic:POH27
0.03166365   Serbian:Serbian_Serbia5
0.03410918   Macedonian:Macedonian2
0.03474859   Rumelia_East:647
0.03534709   Serbian:Serbian_Serbia2
0.03550310   Bulgarian:Bulgaria1
0.03610152   Romanian:A343
0.03615760   Greek_Central_Macedonia:GreeceNE8
0.03738820   Bulgarian:BulgarianD6
0.03739237   Italian_Northeast:ALP093
0.03740417   Greek_Central_Macedonia:GREEKGRALPOP8
0.03745905   Moldovan:MOL-064
0.03748591   Montenegrin:Montenegro1
0.03813404   Greek_Central_Macedonia:GreeceNE34
0.03842753   Moldovan:MOL-024
0.03876372   Serbian:Serbian_Serbia4
0.03932337   Montenegrin:Montenegro6
0.03961184   Moldovan:MOL-005
0.03973681   Italian_Northeast:KF1803129
0.03981767   Italian_Veneto:KF1803105
0.03989441   Romanian:G428
0.04027801   Rumelia_East:645
0.04028003   Macedonian:Macedonian8
0.04040659   Romanian:A325
0.04045696   Italian_Northeast:ALP081
0.04092237   Italian_Northeast:KF2700922
« Ostatnia zmiana: Grudzień 13, 2021, 08:06:43 am wysłana przez Radek »
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S_u_P_K

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Odp: Ancient DNA from pre-Slavic and Slavic individuals
« Odpowiedź #3 dnia: Grudzień 13, 2021, 08:13:13 am »

Te wyniki my znamy. Gdyby miało stanąć na tych trzech próbkach  z Libivy, nie ma się czym ekscytować.
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Radek

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Odp: Ancient DNA from pre-Slavic and Slavic individuals
« Odpowiedź #4 dnia: Grudzień 13, 2021, 08:23:25 am »

Te wyniki my znamy. Gdyby miało stanąć na tych trzech próbkach  z Libivy, nie ma się czym ekscytować.

Szczatkow szkieletowych maja wiecej, tylko z ilu udalo sie uzyskac wyniki?

Medical-anthropological analysis of bone remains from the 5th century (Líbivá, Czech Republic)

The burial-ground from the 5th century at Líbivá near Břeclav concerns 15 graves with bone remains of 16 individuals (5 children, 1 juvenil, 10 adults) were discovered. A proof of intracranial inflammation of 2 infants (probably of tuberculous origin), osteitis deformans, and 2 serious disturbances of cranial bone symmetry (posttraumatic asymmetry of the face of 30-40years old man and asymmetry of cranial bones of a 15-16 year old girl caused by an artificial skull deformation), being the most important of paleopathological findings. The tooth decays were found in half number of adults, sporadically were found radicular cysts. Arthrosis was observed at large limb joints even of younger individuals. Conclusions of our investigation indicative of study group poor health state are consistent with the archaeologists’ hypothesis, who regard the community from Líbivá as a remainder of the original autochthonous Suebic population suppressed by a new coming population probably.

Niedlugo powinny pojawic sie rowniez pierwsze wyniki auDNA z Mušova ;)
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Odp: Ancient DNA from pre-Slavic and Slavic individuals
« Odpowiedź #5 dnia: Grudzień 13, 2021, 08:24:37 am »

Zapewne tylu, ile umieszczono w repozytorium.
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Odp: Ancient DNA from pre-Slavic and Slavic individuals
« Odpowiedź #6 dnia: Grudzień 13, 2021, 08:30:38 am »

Niedlugo powinny pojawic sie rowniez pierwsze wyniki auDNA z Mušova ;)

Z ktorego poki co sa dostepne jedynie wyniki mtDNA...

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/T2e-a1/
https://www.yfull.com/mtree/V11/
https://www.yfull.com/mtree/N1b1b1*/
https://www.yfull.com/mtree/H1c1*/

Mušov (LCRMUS)
Excavation at Mušov, area of “Roviny”(Brno-Country) began in 2009. The inhumation cemetery consists in about 250 grave pits and represents one of the most extensive funerary assemblages of the beginning of the 6th century in the whole Middle Danube region. A burial ground of Merovingian type was first attested. Some graves were robbed relatively soon after the funeral. “Thuringian style” silver-gilt brooches decorated with almandine inlays shaped with stylized animal parts, glass beads, fragment of iron shears and prindle whorl and vessels seem to be linked to the generation of the founders of the cemetery during the so-called Thuringian phase. Silver-gilt S-shaped Schwechat/Pallersdorf-type brooch and glass beads considered typical of the Pannonian phase of Longobard development were also found and seem to be linked to the latest phase of use of the necropolis.
« Ostatnia zmiana: Grudzień 13, 2021, 08:36:38 am wysłana przez Radek »
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ambroziak

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Odp: Ancient DNA from pre-Slavic and Slavic individuals
« Odpowiedź #7 dnia: Grudzień 13, 2021, 09:16:06 am »

Widać, że u Czechów będzie podobnie, jak u nas - przed średniowieczem będą przybysze i miejscowi.
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Radek

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« Ostatnia zmiana: Styczeń 03, 2022, 07:59:42 pm wysłana przez Radek »
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ambroziak

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Odp: Ancient DNA from pre-Slavic and Slavic individuals
« Odpowiedź #9 dnia: Styczeń 04, 2022, 07:48:20 am »

Ta twarz wydaje mi się jakoś znajoma. Widocznie musi być podobny albo do jakiejś osoby publicznej, albo jakiegoś mojego znajomego.
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Radek

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Odp: Ancient DNA from pre-Slavic and Slavic individuals
« Odpowiedź #10 dnia: Styczeń 27, 2022, 02:35:19 pm »

To inna ciekawostka...



Czech archaeologists are faced with a mystery in the central Bohemian municipality of Tetin.

During an emergency excavation near St. Catherine's Church there, as Radio Prague reported, they came across several medieval graves with the remains of at least seven people.

Among them was a skull of a 40- to 50-year-old woman who is believed to have come from Africa.

A DNA analysis should now provide information about this, it said.

Why the woman was traveling in Bohemia cannot be said.

"One possibility is that she was a member of a diplomatic mission or a wedding party," says archaeologist Tomas Polisensky.

“Probably that person died on the journey.

This means that their goal may not have been Bohemia or Tetin, but perhaps a European royal court.”

According to Radio Prague, their stay could be related to the fact that Tetin was the seat of the Premyslid princely family in the Middle Ages.

According to Polisensky, however, the woman was not originally buried at the site where she was found, a medieval castle and burial site.

Someone later brought the remains there.

https://www.tellerreport.com/news/2022-01-22-czech-republic--medieval-grave-find-is-a-mystery.BkbQkq3FaK.html
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ambroziak

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Odp: Ancient DNA from pre-Slavic and Slavic individuals
« Odpowiedź #11 dnia: Styczeń 27, 2022, 03:21:02 pm »

No to rzeczywiście ciekawostka.
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Odp: Ancient DNA from pre-Slavic and Slavic individuals
« Odpowiedź #12 dnia: Styczeń 27, 2022, 04:29:47 pm »

I cyk w następnym historycznym serialu Netflixa królowa czeska będzie czarna  :D
« Ostatnia zmiana: Styczeń 27, 2022, 05:02:07 pm wysłana przez Lukaszo »
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S_u_P_K

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Odp: Ancient DNA from pre-Slavic and Slavic individuals
« Odpowiedź #13 dnia: Styczeń 27, 2022, 04:41:40 pm »

Jeśli się potwierdzi, najbardziej niepocieszony będzie prof. Kokowski. Tyle nadziei na gocką Murzynkę z Gródka na nic, a tu cyk - zachodni Słowianie potrafią...!

 :P
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Odp: Ancient DNA from pre-Slavic and Slavic individuals
« Odpowiedź #14 dnia: Styczeń 28, 2022, 07:55:10 pm »

Ta twarz wydaje mi się jakoś znajoma. Widocznie musi być podobny albo do jakiejś osoby publicznej, albo jakiegoś mojego znajomego.

Tez jegomosc wydal mi sie znajomy. Myslalem i wymyslilem. To przodek Jaromira Nohavicy!
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